How do you cope walking in the revelation of grace and attending a fellowship that is still mixing law and grace?
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7 Principles of Grace
Romans 3:21-25
21But now the righteousness of God (1)apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God, (2)through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on (3)all who believe. For there is no difference; 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 (4)being justified (5)freely by His Grace (6) through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God set forth(7) [as] a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
10 comments:
A better question for me would be how do I cope with people whom I have no idea where they stand? I would like to be around more like minded people at times. I actually just got through praying and asking God whether I am to be where I'm at. I've been there a year and still don't feel a connection as deep as I'd like to. It could be my timidity and lack of assertiveness to be more involved in their lives. I'm not sure. I just don't quite have that "at home" feeling.
They're wonderful people. But sometimes I'm not sure if I'm meant to be there.
But back to the question you asked. I believe if you feel led to stay in the Church you're in, then immerse yourself in books on grace, the Bible, online sermons and whatever. Immerse yourself in grace and truth.
I also find it hard not to dissect every little word someone speaks, when I'm with other believers who might not yet be living in, or growing in full grace. It's definitely a tough position to be in. Sometimes I feel I want to be fed grace and at other times I feel I need to be the one who feeds it to others who haven't fully grasped it.
This is an excellent question, I have been struggling with similar thoughts myself, and I don't have an answer.....I long for more believers to come to an understanding of pure grace.....we recently left a law-grace mixture church,( I couldn't cope!!) and are now joining a church we believe is a grace filled church, however we still have relationships with others who don't understand pure grace yet, the full gospel, or who they truly are in Christ!! I just want to get more and more full of grace for myself and begin to really lift others up - have you listened to Rob Rufus' Grace Hating Spirit messages????
Anyway, this must be difficult for you as you want to experience the joy of your freedom in Christ, but yet have to fight for the truth and possibly experience rejection and judgement from others.....
Hi Daelon
Thank you very much for your comment on this post.
I have found that you can tell very quickly where people stand. I am at the point where I can actually feel where I stand before a person even opens their mouth.
Usually the lack of joy and serious frown lines are a dead give away.
It is the subtle, underlying goings on that get to me. The behind ones back stuff. The looks of disapproval from people who are your close friends and now think that your have been deceived by the enemy. That gets to me big time.
I love these people so much, but I have also learnt that it is not them. It is the "Grace hating spirit" that Lydia mentions above.
I feel called to my fellowship. The way I have learnt to cope is by going there and doing two things. Loving God and loving people. I worship my God and I love who ever the Father puts in my way. This works.
I did find myself in huge criticism, which lead to a root of bitterness. This is very difficult to get rid of, and I dare say even for the Holy Spirit. I say this because we tend to hold on to the bitterness and the Holy Spirit is such a gentleman that He will never force us to do anything.
Please guard your hearts and if you find yourselves falling into criticism run to the Father and ask Him for help quickly.
I also find myself battling to just relax and receive any teaching (as you mentioned). I am constantly on my guard as to when the next works/legal "attack" is going to come. This is also not comfortable as I want to be teachable.
Any ideas on how to overcome this??
Hey Lydia
Thank you for writing and sharig your heart.
I have been (as Daelon suggests above) listening to pure grace teaching and immersing myself in the Word.
My biggest concern are my fellow brothers and sisters. I also long for them to walk in freedom. I pray the Father reveals grace to them soon. I am convinced that the Holy Spirit is the only one who opens our eyes, (Rom 3v21.
How did you know that it was time to go find another church?
Also, how did you know that the church you went to is a "grace filled church?"
Is this the type of persecution that Paul went through?
In Acts 18v4 we read "And he reasoned in the synagogue on every sabbath, persuading both Jews and Greeks."
I seem that Paul was often found where the legalists were. As if he went there on purpose to pick a fight. Interesting thought.
This question really hits home with me. And I can truly relate to what others have said here.
After leaving a legalistic church in 1996, my wife and I had the wonderful opportunity to be involved in a very-grace-based church for 3 years. This experience really helped to build a great foundation in my life.
However, for various reasons the church dispersed in 1999 and my wife and I began attending the church where we're at now, in early 2000. There are many positive things in our church, including a lot of hands-on ministry, great worship services, etc. And our pastor has much more of a revelation of grace than most I've heard in my lifetime.
However, in some ways law is still mixed in with the grace message, and this has been very frustrating for me! Even though this is a fairly large church, the pastor has been gracious enough to meet with me on 2 or 3 occasions to discuss some of this, and while we agree on a lot of things, we've agreed to disagree about the purpose of the law in the life of the believer.
Well, during the almost eight years that we've been there, I've had times of great encouragement and also times of great discouragement. I've prayed and prayed and prayed over and over again about whether or not I should be there. For 7 1/2 years, the Lord confirmed to me over and over again that I was to be a part of this church, even when I really wanted to leave. And the main thing that kept me from being overly frustrated by the preaching each week was exactly what was said in the comments here... Loving God and loving people. It's more important that I love people than it is that we all agree on everything.
That said, there were three specific times when I was very badly discouraged and I desperately wanted to leave, and I made up my mind that I just couldn't handle it anymore... and then suddenly the Lord encouraged me and made it clear that I was still to be a part of this church.
But yet remaining in this atmosphere has taken a toll on me in regards to becoming firmly established in grace. That's been one of my constant cries to the Lord. I want to be firmly established in grace, so that I can not only know head-doctrine (as we've talked about here recently) but so that my heart is resting in the truth and is firmly established in grace.
It is hard to really grow in grace when there are weeds all around, no matter how subtle and seemingly invisible they are! A little leaven messes up the whole batch of dough. Well, for some reason the Lord kept me in the midst of this church for 7 1/2 years. But then this past May He suddenly "released" me, after much prayer and an aching heart, and I haven't been "to church" since then.
My wife is not as sensitive to the subtle legalism as I am, and she continues to go, but I can truly say that I've finally had an extended time of steady "freshness" and growth.
Well I didn't mean to go that long with my story, but the heart of it for me is prayer, prayer and did I mention prayer? :) I always want to go with His leading. I don't want to go the easy way just because it's easy but I also don't want to go the difficult way with the thinking that it's super-spiritual to do so. I just want to trust in the Lord and His faithfulness in all circumstances.
Wow. Thank you for being so vulnerable and sharing this with us Joel.
I have just spoken to Louisa on the phone and read your comment to her.
It is quite amazing, as Louisa and her husband have just gone through the same experience.
She mentioned that she wants to comment on your comment.
We are commanded to do the following things in Acts: a)Do not neglect the fellowship of the saints. b)Break of bread often c)Pray often d)Sit under the teaching of the apostles.
I think that we have been programmed that this can only occur in a structured "churh" environment.
But all of the above can happen anywhere and at any time. I feel we must be lead by the Holy Spirit of God.
One question. How did you know you were "released"?
I would love to hear from Louisa regarding the experience of her and her husband. This has often been somewhat of a lonely experience, without having been able to talk with people who have shared in similar struggles.
Your question, how did I know I was "released," is a good one. A few words here won't do justice to the whole thing, but might at least give the gist of it.
I think I'll first answer a different question. How did I know I was to stay during those 7 1/2 years. It seems as if whenever the Lord has wanted me to do something that appears difficult, uncomfortable, or for whatever reason has caused me to resist, He puts a "check" in my heart, or a "red flag," and it's something that simply remains. Many times I'll feel an ongoing pull or a tug from the Lord in the direction He wants me to go, and it's something that won't let up. (I have a hard time describing this).
In my last comment I wrote about the times when I finally made up my mind, or came to the conclusion, that I could no longer do what I was doing. In other words, I came to a place in my heart where I "gave up" on my commitment to where the Lord had me. Sometimes it was in the form of "I don't want to do this anymore, so I need to break free." And sometimes it was in the form of "I can't do this anymore Lord!"
I can't explain it, but it's often been during those times of frustration and desperation that the Lord has come in at the very last minute and has reaffirmed HIS commitment to me and to His plan in my life, and has encouraged me in His love and grace regarding my situation. The decision to "stay" then becomes an issue of love and trust, as opposed to, "I need to get out of here" or even "I just need to grin and bear it."
The above words definitely do not adequately describe my experience, but I hope it makes some sort of sense. And it leads to how I knew I was "released." After having gone through several of the above experiences in life in which the Lord has confirmed to me what He wanted to do in and through me, I've essentially grown into a state of trust that He will always confirm His will in my life if I'm straying, or even thinking about straying from it. I do believe that there is freedom in the Lord to the extent that if I don't go along with His will, I'm still fully accepted in the Beloved and that He will never force His will. But I also believe that He has placed us all where He wants us and that He is much more wise as to what He wants to do in and through us!
Anyway, this time around, none of the checks or red flags came up. I sensed no "pull" or "tug" from the heart of the Lord. I remember being quite surprised during this time, and I was definitely fully enjoying the the sense of freedom. If the Lord ever leads me back, then I'll go back. If He leads me elsewhere, I'll go elsewhere.
You are so correct that the structured church environment is by no means the only way in which Christians can be involved in the assembling of the members of the body of Christ and in everything that goes on in the life of a believer. The Lord has showed me this in so many ways, and I simply want to be my part of the body of Christ no matter what the setting. "Church" happens whenever two or more are gathered in His name. It doesn't have to be any more difficult than that. :)
Grace, How did I know it was time? God really did a cool thing, we had to go out of state for almost 2months to finish packing up and selling a home, then some of that was vacation, during that time we had much revelation of grace and wanted to experience freedom from what we had at our church, however we didn't know where we'd go, and couldn't fathom leaving our "old comfy slippers" church, over the 2 months we heard of a church that was forming and hoping to start up right when we'd be getting back from out of state and setting up residence in our new home, so we just felt it was clear that God was kindly releasing us from the burden of the former church, and gently placing us into a new flock that wants to go full gospel, full grace. There's alot more to the tale than this, but, we are excited to be in on the foundations of this new church forming!! You can check out the website on my blog, ajoytobeme, it's called Grace Community church, and will have messages online soon......
Lydia
Hey Grace,
You asked how to be teachable without over-analyzing every word people say.
To be honest...sometimes I just have to bear with them and with myself. Sometimes I get irritated and frustrated and even angry at what even friends will say. Sometimes it's just an implication and I'm ready to go to war. But I have to remember they are not my enemy. They are brothers and sisters. And I just need to quit trying to convert people.
I tried to do this with a beautiful friend and brother in the Lord last Sunday and afterward, I felt totally stupid for it. It wasn't me trying to explain grace to him for his freedom and joy. There was no love in it. I simply wanted to convert him for my own interests.
I noticed all the while I analyze every word someone speaks, I forget they're my brother or sister and I get caught up in this mindset that they're the enemy.
So my best answer is to pray to Father and be honest about it. I'll pray something like: "Father...I was so irritated with them today because they're so focused on doing. I just want them to be more like me. I want them to quit worrying about how to be a good Christian and simply come together and talk about You and Your grace."
Also, sometimes I just need to shut up and tune it out. And sometimes I need to listen. lol
Get out and find a grace church! Move if you have to, whatever it takes but don't give into the grace hating spirit even for a moment. I think that many in legalistic churches sit feeling trapped, they feel they can't leave until God speaks in a loud thundering voice but they are under such a weight of condemnation and manipulation that they can't hear God's voice even if he were telling them to leave. The implications of sitting under legalistic teaching and authority is terrible for you and your children, bringing the curse of the law into your life. Who wants that?
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