Why are we not seeing signs and wonders, as frequently, as written about in the Acts church?
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Grace Flood is the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ, which saves a world that is undeserving. Jesus's message of Grace will change your life like a Flood from Heaven.
Hi this is our Blog on Grace. We hope and pray that the Grace of God will flood into your life like it has ours. A good place to start is to listen to the mp3 messages, they will not only turn your world around, you will feel like you have just been saved all over again!
7 Principles of Grace
Romans 3:21-25
21But now the righteousness of God (1)apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God, (2)through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on (3)all who believe. For there is no difference; 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 (4)being justified (5)freely by His Grace (6) through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God set forth(7) [as] a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
11 comments:
This is a very good question! Jesus did say that the things He did... we would do the same things and even greater things. I know that some people say that all that stuff was only for the apostles, and not for the church today, but I just don't believe that at all!
There are probably many, many reasons why they aren't prevalent as we would hope they would be. One reason might be because many in the "seeker sensitive" churches today are trying to play it safe, and not do anything that might freak anybody out.
Another reason might be that many are seeking after the signs and wonders themselves, and not actually seeking after the Holy Spirit, and so you either have a bunch of fake signs and wonders or you may have none at all.
One more reason, which sort of goes along with the previous reason, is that many churches teach "principles for Christian living," and rules, laws, etc, but yet even in doing many righteous things, they aren't really helping anyone to actually know Jesus!
Jesus Himself, while walking on earth in the form of a man, said that He abides in the Father, and the Father in Him, and as He looks at what the Father is doing, He does those things. In fact He said that it's not even Himself who does the works, but rather "the Father who dwells in Me does the works." (John 14:10).
Jesus told us that our life in Him was exactly the same. We abide in Him, and He in us, and He works His works in and through us. I fear that the church today has basically skipped the "abiding," and heads straight for working the works. In doing so, we might possibly see mighty works, wonders, signs and deeds, all done in His name, but they're not His mighty works, wonders, signs and deeds.
I don't know if this is what you're getting at in your question, but this is where my thoughts went with this. I'd love to hear what others have to say.
Having come "out of" the Pentecostal church (sort of), I really am interested to hear what anyone else might have to say about this. Where I came from, there were lots of 'signs and wonders,' but a lot of it seemed to be either fake or very overdone. More fleshly than supernatural, if you know what I mean. The kind I see on Christian TV seems to be the same.
During the past dozen years or so, I've kind of had to get over a lot of that, but yet I'm genuinely interested to hear about people who are genuinely operating in some of the more outward gifts of the Spirit for the purpose of the edification of the church, etc, and not just for show or for emotional purposes.
Hi Joel
I am sorry that I have not replied to your posting earlier. I have just started a new job and finding time a precious asset at the moment.
I have only been back walking with Jesus for the past 3 years or so. My experience is limited.
I have seen some miracles happen and thank our Father for this privilege.
My fascination comes in where I am reading the accounts in the Bible of signs and wonders, but I am not seeing much of this today. That is after Jesus tells us that we will do what He did and more.
John 4v48 Then Jesus said to him, Unless you see signs and wonders you will not believe.
I feel Jesus wants to perform signs and wonders through us, so that unbelievers will see the one true God and believe without a doubt.
I have spent much time listening to Rob Rufus's teachings. He himself operates in signs and wonders.
From what I can gather from these teachings is that revival, signs and wonders is stopped or seriously retarded by law/works/programs.
I think it is as if the Father says "Well you think you can do this on your own, go for it..."
Another thing is that Gods power is in His glory and His glory is in His presents.
I feel that if we are continually striving for His power, and not just wanting to spend time in His presents, we will miss the glory.
It is the whole idea of having a relationship with someone to get something out of them. Better to just have a relationship with someone, the rest will flow naturally after that.
I also believe that signs and wonders will flow where the Holy Spirit is and from 2Corinthians 3, this occurs mainly in a New Covenant environment.
I also believe that God does what He likes, and can perform miracles at His own discretion.
Lastly I also think that practice comes into the equation. When we are prepared to believe what the Bible tells us and put this belief into practice, God can then move.
When last did you pray for someone in a wheelchair, or a blind person or someone with aids?
Thanks for replying to my comments. I'm seeing more people such as yourself who love the manifestations of God, but not just to see a show or to fulfill an emotional longing, but for the good, or glory, that is found in it and that comes out of it.
I read 1 Cor 12, Romans 12 and other similar passages (such as Eph 4:11) about the gifts of the Spirit, and I see God manifesting Himself in the worldwide body through a large variety of gifts, all for the purpose of edifying the church and bringing people to Jesus.
Some of these gifts are more obviously "miraculous" (healings, prophesy, tongues, etc) and some seem less miraculous (serving, teaching, giving, leadership, mercy, etc) but it's God works all these things, all for the good of the full body.
These days I am free to tell people without guilt that I have prayed and laid hands on people many times, but have never seen a healing that came out of my own laying on of hands. However, I know of many with whom this has happened. I also know that I speak in tongues, but I know of many who don't. The old way of legalism that I was in told me that I simply didn't have enough faith to heal. The old way of legalism told my wife that she didn't have enough faith to speak in tongues. We were told we needed to pray more and 'stretch out our faith' for these things.
But passages such as 1 Cor 12 and Rom 12 tell me a different story. There are diversities of gifts, differences of ministries, diversities of activities, but the same God works all of them in different people, "distributing to each one individually as He wills" (1 Cor 12:11). "...All the members do not have the same function... having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us" (Rom 12:4,6).
What I've personally been doing since I got away from the legalistic hype, is to seek God as to who "I" am in the body and to walk contently in it, and also to help encourage others as to who they are.
I'm very open to the Spirit doing in and through me whatever He wants to do, and I "eagerly desire" other gifts (1 Cor 14:1). But if I'm not content in the "part" of the body that I am, then I'll spend the rest of my life trying to be something that I'm not, which not only messes up my own life, but that of the body as a whole.
I'm very thankful and full of praise to God when I see Him manifest Himself in the more obviously 'miraculous' ways, because I think these are the things that Jesus said the church would do. But these aren't the only works that Jesus performs in His body, so I have become much more concerned that the church not get so caught up in these things that we neglect the fact that the body is made up of many diverse parts, and each and every part is equally as important and necessary.
But back to what I first said (in my first comment), I think that many of the more obvious 'miraculous' gifts are snuffed out in the "traditional" church today, and I pray that none of the gifts will be neglected at all, for any reason.
Hi Joel
I hope you feel better soon brother.
Your maturity is refreshing. It is not a "I must seem mature to move up the heirachy." I can say this, because I have been there. Yours is a free giving of the revelation and the teaching gift that the Father has given you. We are very grateful for your willingness to share.
Louisa, who writes on this blog, often says that we should not put God or what He does in a box. You have highlighted this point in your last comment.
It is a miracle that you and I are talking about the wonderful, free gift that the Father has given us. You in America and me in South Africa (Eph 4v4).
Jesus tells us that what He did, we will do and more.
I see the ability to heal people, raise the dead and chase demons a right and a command, given by the Most High God.
I battle to understand why our Father would go to so much effort to restore our authority on earth if we are not supposed to use it- obviously to reach a lost world and ultimately for His glory.
I feel that when we start walking and living as we should in Christ, there will be a closing of the gap between the theology and the practical.
These are just my opinions. I am open to other peoples opinions and even correction.
Amen to that...! We need to have our minds and hearts open wide to a very, very big God who cannot be contained in our puny little boxes. :) I think that when we live with a self-consciousness rather than a constant Christ-consciousness, we keep ourselves from truly exploring the true depths of our big God.
I'm wanting to grow more and more into this Christ-consciousness, and like you I think it's so very amazing that we're on different continents but yet God has enabled us to encourage each other in the pure gospel of grace, moving us deeper and deeper into the Christ-life!
"I feel that when we start walking and living as we should in Christ, there will be a closing of the gap between the theology and the practical."
Amen to that, brother! Christ is a Person, and while "study" of the Person (theology) helps us to learn more about Him, He Himself is not a method, a subject, a set of principles, etc, but rather He is the Living God who dwells in us and is One with us!
Hey Joel
I see your typing fingers are healed, how about the rest of you?
I have a deep hunger to get to know my Father, His Spirit and His Son more. I am tired of head knowledge. I want a heart knowledge. I am tired of knowing "of Him".
I wonder why, having His Spirit in me, I am finding it so hard to get to know Him and be with Him.
I am probably striving. It really sucks.
I have prayed about this and I often get the answer of "How can I give you something you already have?"
This is the part I mention of closing the gap of theology and the practical.
Maybe the title of your blog "Growing in Grace" is a good answer.
I suppose the Holy Spirit slowly does what He has to do in us.
You can more than likely see that patience is not one of my strong points.
Well, after exactly one week of dealing with this illness, I think today it's finally leaving my system. I've felt pretty good all day, for the first time since last Saturday.
Growing in grace... yes! As far as I can tell, it is an ongoing, lifelong process. I believe the Spirit has been revealing this to me throughout many years, but mostly during the past 4 years, and it's really become the core of my "ministry" in this world. I mean, God has placed it on my heart to share not only the message of His grace, but to share that growing in it takes time.
Up until recently, I mainly just believed that it was only legalists who needed to hear the message. That is, those who are trying so very hard to live the Christian life. Or perhaps better said, "recovering legalists." Those who have tried and tried and tried but have failed, and are now ready to rest in God's grace. And I guess this is the main crowd who I can relate to, because I've been there and done that!
But in the midst of it all, I've found another group of people who I can also relate to, such as yourself, who have indeed left the life of legalism and have fully embraced the gospel of grace, but who long so deeply to know God more and more and more, and who are frustrated that these longings seemingly aren't being fulfilled. I am in this same boat. I have repeatedly said the same thing you said here... "If the Spirit is in me, then why...?" Why am I not living consistently? Why do I not know Him better? Why am I not more mature in my faith? Why aren't certain Biblical principles "working" the way I think they should? Etc, etc.
And I think you hit the nail on the head with your word about striving. We are striving to gain something we already have. And I think it's because what we already have is so HUGE that we can't fathom it all at once, but yet we desperately want to! After all, the fullness of God is in us!
But yet it takes a long time to grow in this practically. It's not automatic. It can't be automatic.
The phrase "enjoy the journey" comes to my mind often. If I'm to fully enjoy my relationship with God, then I must enjoy the fact that I haven't "arrived" in the fullness of the practical application of the theology, and that God Himself has planned a growing process. The Father is not called the "vinedresser" for nothing. And Jesus, the vine. And us, the branches. He says the branches bear fruit by abiding (resting) in the Vine, and that the Father prunes the branches so they may bear more fruit (John 15). The fact that there is a pruning process tells me that there are seasons and stages of growth. Bearing fruit isn't automatic, but it comes from a careful process that the Father is fully in charge of.
I'm going on and on, as usual, but I am soaring in my Spirit right now because I just happen to need this type of encouragement right now!
Just FYI, I've written a lot about this kind of stuff on my blog, and I looked up a couple of posts in particular that have to do with the process of growing in grace, if you're interested. The first one, Grace Roots, is from almost a year ago and the second one,
Established and Growing in Grace, is from a couple of months ago. The imagery of the palm tree and the cedar tree, as mentioned in the first one (derived from a conversation I heard based upon Psalm 92), has been especially encouraging to me.
Hey Joel
I am blown away by your insight and selflessness shown in the care, time and thought that you put into answering on this blog. Thank you very much. You have and are being a huge blessing.
Thank you also for your blog and pod cast. I downloaded "Meeting people where they are at" last night and hope to listen to it tomorrow.
Thinking about it, I am expectant to learn and be blessed by what I am going to hear. Nice one.
I am so glad that we have the Holy Spirit to renew our minds and to help us work out our salvation.
Daily I come into contact with people (I am also one of them) who have such deep legalistic roots that only the Holy Spirit could weed them out and fill the gap.
Hey
Check these out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usbVEVemr6Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au4ooZYIkZI
Post a Comment