Hey punk..please post this on the blog...really good on eternal salvation (like there is any other kind!)
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Grace Flood is the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ, which saves a world that is undeserving. Jesus's message of Grace will change your life like a Flood from Heaven.
Hi this is our Blog on Grace. We hope and pray that the Grace of God will flood into your life like it has ours. A good place to start is to listen to the mp3 messages, they will not only turn your world around, you will feel like you have just been saved all over again!
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7 Principles of Grace
Romans 3:21-25
21But now the righteousness of God (1)apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God, (2)through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on (3)all who believe. For there is no difference; 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 (4)being justified (5)freely by His Grace (6) through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God set forth(7) [as] a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
9 comments:
Thanks Greg..
I agree with 98% of this piece..
Any takers for the portion I diagree with?
Any portions you discagree with..
By the way I reserve the right to be wrong, so teach me if you must!!
Wayno
( PHD in T.U.C )
(Theology Under Construction)
I would like to say that you need to be very careful in entertaining this piece ... It looks like Grace it even sounds like it but it is full of leaven that is disguised in what sounds so close to what you say Grace is ... Grace is to be persuided by Gods work and effort on your behalf ..Grace is Gods(and not your own) devine influience upon your heart and your LIFE. I would advise that you rather hold on to what God has placed in your heart when He revealed His love and His Grace and His tender Mercies to you in the begining, to trust His devine influence and His Holy Spirit upon your life and your thought pattern, rather than learning too much stuff from too many different"preachers and teachers" rather remain in the simplicity of what you received from your father in the grace revelation and teaching; entertain all these other teachings with utmost caution! Rom 12 ..Present your bodies living .... Jesus did a complete work ..our spirit and our body. Paul confirms here that we are holy(because of what Jesus did on our behalf) He confirms that we are acceptable to God! The admonishment here is to encourage us not to be fashioned after the world (and if you read the context here and the whole of Romans) the world is the law .. the mindset and thinking pattern of by what I do I can get or please God. Paul says but be transformed by the renewing of your mind ...don't think like the world ... the law system ... by what you do ... your effort in acceptability before God ... no!!! renew your way of thinking according to what God thinks and what God says about you ... You are holy ..righteous ...loved etc.. Yes because of what Jesus did on your behalf. Think in your mind like this and you will be transformed. And you will know and understand what Gods will is for you ... His will for you is that in Jesus you will walk in perfection .. holy .. righteous ..always in unbroken fellowship with Him. You will know that it is His will for His Holy Spirit to be in you always and not just sometimes! Paul is not exhorting believers of what they SHOULD do and what life they SHOULD lead(as this piece tries to imply). Rom 12 is not an exhortation to Godly living ..(rather see it as godly thinking .. what God thinks about you) Also....
2Cor 5:15 has nothing (as is explained in this piece) to do with selfish living ...But rather living unto Jesus as beinh IN Christ ..We have believed, therefor we are transformed out of darkness into light, we are righteous, we are holy, we don't die but we do live. We are forgiven, we are free 2Cor5:15 says He died for all, we are dead to Adam, the law, sin etc We are alive IN CHRIST...unto Him , unto all He has achieved for us and on behalf of us. Sin does not sever(as he explains there) our fellowship with God EVER! Be transformed in your thinking...
He carries on with what seems such nobel and correct explanations in 1John 1 ... It all looks so attractive and good...Same as the fruit in the Garden looked to eve Gen 3 ...but it is not the Good News of Jesus ...and if we annalise the rest it will take another 100 pages to explain the leaven in each of these chapters .. slight error, that takes our thought pattern and thinking proccess away from the way God thinks about us!!! Wayno your theology can not be under construction, that is a lie from satan. God has done a complete and perfect work in you ..He did not do it half ..It is time that you start believing this, so that you can see that as He is in this world so are you, that you may know you are a new creature, that you are born of God ...these are all facts if you believe in Jesus ..a fact is a fact it is not under construction. Arise and shine therefor, for your light HAS come and the glory of the Lord IS risen upon you. The full and complete work of God. Be Blessed
Thank you very much for your response, I appreciate the "guarding". We need to fight to keep eachother free from every form of levin!!
Regarding some of your comments.
Personally "grace being a devine influence upon the heart"...this does fit into my personal definition of Grace. It has changed my heart and continues to.
With regards to my theology being under construction...For me I am still learning more and more wonderful truths regarding grace. Yes the completeness of it has taken place, but there are deeper and deeper revalations. More and more I can learn, and therefore teach.
My mentor, the guys i learned grace from still continue to show me more and more about grace, and the many levels it effects. If i was not open to learning more, much of the joy i have and walk in would have been lost. Rob Rufus says about grace "It's like an ascending spiral case, you keep coming round to the same place, but a little higher"
So i am still lerning, and want to continue to learn. I read all the authors I can on grace, and have just ordered a few more books. I am a student of grace.
I like what a freind of mine Bertie says "I am open to learning about grace, but if you want to teach me how to be under the law, im not interested"...I agree!
This piece on "eternal salvation" is just that, a biblical defence on salvation, and although i dont agree with all of it, and there are parts i totally disagree with, it contains many great scriptures and arguments for eternal salvation.
Here is a question for you, something i battle with..
When ever i read or hear a preach i find that I'm only agreeing with 80-95% of the presch.
What do you do with the 5-20% you disagree with? Either the preacher is wrong, or I am?
If you will only listen to 100% truth, who will you listen to?
Yes, god is our teacher, and the holy spirit brings understanding and illuminaton, and He has taught me many wonderful truths, but so have men, who can be powerfully used bu the H.S.
Wayno
Student of Grace
So with the" levin sorted!! That is great. My response to this piece was by open invitation, and my concern was with the statement of agreeing with 98%.( I was unaware of you not agreeing with all of it and the parts you "totally disagree" with) Over the past few months I have read many of the posts on this site and my honest feeling was that many teachings posted sounds so close to grace, but that there was real error in what they suggested. I would like to encourage that we absolutely know what we believe and that we stand up for the truth of this wonderful gospel. It is not debateable to entertain that the law in some weird and wonderful way can be our friend, or to agree that God stored up and patiently waited to pour out his anger and wrath upon us(roughly quoted)..None of these were your teachings but they came out of books ..a lot of statements made by these writers are absolutely true, but a hell of a lot was absolute nonsence and law riddled, that only serves to confuse young grace students! I don't think there is anything wrong in learning more, and if God is leading you to study and work hard and go so wide then that is what you will do. But I firmly believe that until what some 10 or more guys are teaching in their books have become your own personal revelation and you absolutely believe in what they say, you should not present it. Building with Brad for instance does absolutely the opposite to what this piece did...The time wasted on reading it and then having to try and bring accross in love and kindness where the error lies and then running the risk of offending .. man it only makes one tired! The love of God and the good news does not make tired ... But I tell you when you mix dung in, then things become an effort and offences happen etc.. etc.I want to say this again, I have read most of your posts, and I have loved the fresh revelation and the way in which you brought a point accross in such an easy way(gifted)Right out of your heart..but I have also read posts where your eyes are distracted(by these big teachings & sayings from these big theologians from all these books)(not gifted but from the letter) from how God sees and thinks of you ... I tell you it is empty! Now hear my heart ... yes we all read and study all the time ..and learn more and more, but how can you bring others the 80% of this teacher and the 85% of that teacher .. where is your cut off line 50%? Of the 85% that you agree on what do you do with the 15% that you don't agree with?(You asked)It is never about how much the one is wrong and how much the other is right(My personal opinion on your question is that you only bring and teach and live the 100% that God has revealed to you in your heart .(by whatever means).. you will find people around you and walking with you that believe as you do) It is becomming like the old that we have all broken away from ... The people in those churches are still saying to the grace guys ..Oh we believe exactly what you believe, in fact we have always believed in grace, but there is just this 5% portion that we interpret slightly differently and what is the big deal ...why are you greacy grace oaks breaking away??So why have we all broken away?My comments was not against you, I want to speak up against the error that creaps in(as in this piece) so innocently and it bewiches us and places us again under bondage. We are free ...What is salvation...it is Life! Jesus came to give us life. Before Jesus our hope was death, now our hope is life ...preservation from destruction or decay or rot....redemption from sin and death. Salvation is not the saving of man from hell and eternal burning. So you can shoot me, but I say yes yes yes to being a student of grace ..come Holy Spirit bring it on ...more and more. But the constructing of theology ...it can be very dangerous. The theology of grace is Jesus Christ crusified and Him RISEN! Now I am good and tired, and it is not about who is right and who is wrong and who are we going to listen to and who will we follow. No we can all do exactly as it pleases us and believe what we want. It is only about admonishing and sharing in the absolute freedom and abundant life we can have IN Christ Now and Evermore... Hey dudes did you know it is free .. no strings.
Dear friend..
Thanks again for your ongoing input into this topoic.
I think it's important to mention that this site was born out of the exploration of grace. Were discovered the wonderful gospel of Gods glorious grace, we were changed forever.
We also found that we have alot of jusk in us, junk that bad teaching and a unhelthy mixture of the law ceated in us.
So we wanted to create a platform where we can thrash out our thoughts in a hope to eventaully arrive at "pure grace". This is however a process when it comes to our theology.
Spiritually, its all done, the work is finished, and we can rest in that...thank you Jesus. Now were embarking on the "renewing of the mind", deprogramming the railway tracks, and laying some new ones.
So this site is not to present perfect theology, but rather to help people get to perfet theology, and i'm just one of those people.
Our hope is that as we share what we learn, we will grow in the knowledge of God, and of grace. We are totally open to correction or rebuke on our theology, coz we want to complete the transition inot "pure grace".
A few comments around your last mail...
In Next post
Wayno
Reply continued...
"Over the past few months I have read many of the posts on this site and my honest feeling was that many teachings posted sounds so close to grace, but that there was real error in what they suggested"
I would encourage debate over the areas that do not seem like grace, we are still learning. Please feel free to expose those areas, so we can all learn.
"but a hell of a lot was absolute nonsence and law riddled, that only serves to confuse young grace students!"
Thanks, we must watch out for this!
If anything is confusing, please point it out...I'll try avaid the more confusing stuff, thanks.
"But the constructing of theology ...it can be very dangerous. The theology of grace is Jesus Christ crusified and Him RISEN!"
Thats why we must construct it carefully!!
I'm still working out the fullness of what christ crusified and him risen means. How does it effect my life, my wife, leading, giving, authority, worship, and doctrine.
I'm still learning, so I'm still under construction.
This morning i listned to Ryan Rufus on Hebrews 7. I learned some new stuff, then my wife had a revalation regarding the sacrifice, that i had not yet had. So my theology is incomplete.
So we need eachother to expose our stinking thinking, and keep eachother free. This is also part of theology under construction.
If we put a peg in the ground and say...ok now ive worked out what grace is, i think we will live in incomplete revalation. Now im one greedy bugger, i want more and more revalation. For myself, and to give away.
So with these blogs, the comments and contributions can be as or even more important that the post its self! These are deliberation and debates, healthy ones that will bring us closer, and deeper into the fulllness of the theology of grace.
Blessings
Wayno
please excuse all the typos...
looks like my spelling needs some construction too..heehe
Wayno
That's great, go for it! You are free and so am I ... Thank you Jesus! Be so hugely encouraged along your walk in grace! I know without a shadow of a doubt that you have been fully set free, and that there is absolutely nothing lacking or half produced, created and built in you. And I certainly don't for one monent think you (or any other post writer) has stinking thinking.
Gods Word HAS washed us and we ARE clean(John15:3). You HAVE the mind of Christ.
As He is so ARE you in this world.
This is all fact. You are a 100% correct in saying we want and need more and more revelation, and that as we share we grow more in the knowledge of God. Now here's a thing... knowledge of God is not knowing(intimacy)God ...
Can I venture a bit further here?(Good grief this is now really becoming such a loooong debate, but I believe it is for good) You know Wayne you are right.. BUT, we HAD(past tense) a lot of junk in us, and I believe when we discovered the wonderful Gospel of Gods glorious grace(as you state truely) we WERE changed for ever.
I don't believe for one minute that we have a lot of junk in us, but we HAVE BEEN translated out of darkness into His marvelous light. Yes we HAD bad teachings - and the law DID create junk in us(past tense) BUT OH!!! we don't have to thrash out our thoughts in a hope to EVENTUALLY arrive at "pure grace"
No my friend and brother - He has done a complete work in us - We now DO HAVE good teachings and grace NOW DOES create goodness(Christ) in us ... When we believed Him (only believe)John6:29
His HS assures us and seals us in secure knowledge of His power and abillity to HAVE DONE this complete work in & for us.
ALL DONE: spiritually and physically Rom8:9-14(in the spirit and in the flesh((and in this flesh I now walk by and in the Spirit))Rom8:11 -He shall quicken your mortal bodies....Man I believe all these good things God is saying about me & I remind myself all the time! I am free in the spirit and in the flesh.
Under the law I was in bondage in my spirit and in my flesh(body) and I walked IN the Flesh(works and doing mentality). But.. I believe because of what JESUS did I am now FREE in my spirit and in my flesh(body) and under grace(in Christ) I now walk with this flesh body in the Spirit.I am born again and born of God.John 1:12&13
So I believe the old is dead(died with Christ)and that renewing of the mind is to see and think like God about me to say amen to what God says(I am resurected with Christ) and to BELIEVE what God says about Jesus and me(the coplete work body and spirit)
Renewing the mind is not to deprogram the railway tracs .. No Jesus deprogrammed the tracks already, just believe it. You also don't have to lay some new tracks(Jesus done those too) He even tells us in the word where and how he laid them eg Rom 4, 5, 6, 7 &8. All He asks us is to BELIEVE that He has done all this already, and when we do believe we see the tracks just happening to us and out of the blue they start manifesting in us and we find we start seeing and experiencing new and wonderful tracks in our life!
It is by revelation that we see more and more clearly when we look into the mirror ..( it is our face, but also it is Christ's face ..when we walk away from the mirror we don't forget what we looked like. So Wayne you are doing good and I see the perfection of the fulness of Christ in you(your flesh body)If I could speak to you every day I would like to only remind you of your absolute completeness ... your FULL stature !!!
Now enough of all this. God Bless you my brother and I pray for overflowing everything in you and your wifes life. Continue in being a blessing and a gift to the body of Christ and abound in Grace.
Thanks friend, ill keep reminiding myself of all these wonderful truths..
Wayno
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