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Grace Flood is the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ, which saves a world that is undeserving. Jesus's message of Grace will change your life like a Flood from Heaven.
Hi this is our Blog on Grace. We hope and pray that the Grace of God will flood into your life like it has ours. A good place to start is to listen to the mp3 messages, they will not only turn your world around, you will feel like you have just been saved all over again!
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7 Principles of Grace
Romans 3:21-25
21But now the righteousness of God (1)apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God, (2)through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on (3)all who believe. For there is no difference; 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 (4)being justified (5)freely by His Grace (6) through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God set forth(7) [as] a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
12 comments:
Thanks Gregg, very helpful.
One of the many great advantages to living under grace is the freedom to explore.
At one time I became so rigid in my theology that I would just argue points and inevitably believe that I was right...how wrong I was.
I thank God for Rob and his boldness, his teachings have revolutionised my kingdom view.
I love the fact that Michael challenges some points, it's absolutely healthy and very helpful.
I feel I have to correct, Rob does not say that John was speaking only to gnostics..he says it was a mixed audience that was coming under the influence of gnosticism.
I believe that the point Rob is trying to make is... AS ALWAYS..that you don't H A V E
to confess your sins....
Are we missing the point after all this time???
I want to confess my sins to God and find it very helpful to talk to people that I trust about them as well.
lots of love
Very interesting post! I've seen for a long time that there are a wide variety of views on all sorts of topics within the 'grace community' and I think it's great to discuss all of these differences of opinions (while leaving some breathing room for one another).
While I love listening to Rob, I'd also have to say that I disagree with some of what he says. At the same time, I also agree and disagree with some of what Michael Eaton says here. And I know people agree with some things I say and disagree with other things! I think that's all right. :)
Some of the things I disagree with here: 1 John 1:9. While I probably don't line up with what Rob says, I also don't line up with what Michael says either! I don't think this is a verse for Christians who have lost fellowship with God through sin. I don't believe we lose fellowship with God for sin. Actually it would take too long to lay out my view, and it's not really the point anyway! Just that it's ok for us to disagree.
The Lord's Prayer, and Jesus' words that follow it, is another point that I've brought up many times. I believe that in order to have come to Christ in the first place, we by necessity must have been forgiven of all sins, past present and future. Being forgiven of sins is no longer an issue.
"All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation." (2 Corinthians 5:18-19)
If God doesn't count our sins against us, then what sins are there that need to be forgiven? Also, the Bible says that He has taken our sins away. If they've been taken away, there's no longer a need for forgiveness.
But the kickers for me are verses such as:
"He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us, He took it away, nailing it to the cross" (Colossians 2:13-14) and "Forgive as the Lord forgave you" (Colossians 3:13).
It's past tense, as in a one time event that sealed the deal. The law was against us, standing against us, convicting the world of sin, and He 'canceled the written code' and 'took it away, nailing it to the cross,' and effectively forgave us of all sins.
Before the cross, as was the case of The Lord's Prayer, it was "if you don't forgive others, God won't forgive you." But now, after the cross, the reason we should forgive others is because we have ourselves been forgiven by God.
Again, I can easily see how others would disagree with me on any given point. I feel comfortable teaching what I teach, but yet I've realized that I need to give room to others for disagreement.
Anyway, Gregg, you know how hard it is for me to be brief. :D Thanks for the great post and allowing me to share. I'm looking forward to our next Skype call!
The last two post were chrits on one of Rob Rufus teachings and also on Ryan Rufus's book on "Do Christians Still Have A Sinful Nature"
I am not talking for the rest of the brothers and sisters from Grace in Flood, and I am by NO means as scholastically superior as Michael Eaton.
After listening to Rob for the past two years, and having watched the fruit of both him and his church, and how the Holy Spirit has used these teachings to mature me as a Christian, I am going to say I agree 96.5% with Rob. The other 3.5% is when I don't have a clue what he is saying.
As far as having a sinful nature. I am 100% behind Ryan. Totally from the understanding that I have a divine nature, and how can that be sinful?
Joel, you have once again out done yourself. Thanks buddy.
P.S. Every time I check Skype, you are not online
Hey guys, not sure who put this writing of Michael Eaton's up, but I'm really disappointed to see that it is published on the web without Michael's consent. He wrote it as a personal response to one man's question intended for his personal journey, and as he said in the email 'These pages were written hurriedly and without revision, so judge them kindly!!' - I don't think he ever intended for them to be published for all to see. It is therefore extremely dis-honouring and dis-respectful to publish it. I think something needs to be done about it.
Hi Propitiated
Michael is entitled to his opinion.
Be blessed and be free.
Love
Gregg
Firstly, grace is found in a person, Jesus. So any preaching on grace that doesn't make it's focus and continual reference the person and work of Christ leaves grace open to abuse by those who will apply it as a principle, doctrine or formula to their lives. It becomes a new form of law! Just one that is really in our favour! But the purpose of Calvary is reconciliation TO the Father THROUGH Jesus. If you fail to preach Christ you don't 'bring people to God' 1 Peter 3.18. This is a great danger and should be greatly avoided. I urge those of you who preach Grace to stop talking about 'grace' and talk about the finished work of Christ on the cross.
Secondly, grace has gone too far when you can't make sense of half the New Testament. Like the second half of Ephesians, and Romans 12 on, etc. Paul gives clear instructions. Your doctrine of Christ and his work has to accommodate all of scripture. Paul explains doctrine in the first part of his letters but then gets on to how it is to be outworked, giving guidelines for the implications of these truths. Too much of what I have heard on grace implies that they would prefer it that Ephesians only had the first three chapters! You need to thrash your theology out so that it is robust, and it needs to stand up to all of the New Testament. I encourage you to do this. As I have asked these difficult questions and come to answers, the grace of God has become even more real and wonderful to me. But it's not lunacy.
Wow, thanks for that great post.
My thoughts are:
1)Jesus Christ and Him crucified is what we should be centred on (1Cor 2v2).
2) We take council from the whole Bible, rightly dividing the Word of truth(2Tim 2v15).
3)What Paul procaims in Acts 20v24 is our heart cry.
I also think that it is God who calls us unto Himself. Not our preaching.
I pray that one day my theology is as well "thrashed out" as yours is. Or maybe I shouldn't.
Bless you and please keep writing.
Love
Gregg
Thanks Anonymous
Um not really sure what you mean.
My personal understanding of grace makes sence through Romans 12, and the second half of Ephesians..actually all of the new testament makes sence (more or less knowing that NO-ONE understands all of the bible)..
Seems to me that when somone says "I beieve in Grace/Finished work of the cross" then the person who hears this, interprets that comment into his/her understanding of whay THEY THINK grace means. Many think grace leads to a passive, sinful licentious christanity with no fruit...thats not the Grace were talking about...grace is powerful and has a powerful outworking in the life of the christian...grace changes you positivly and effectivly, its outworking is deep and significant.
There have been some teachings against grace, where grace is wrongly accused of being a lisence to sin, and an excuse to be a lazy christian. I believe these teachings come from those who dont understand true grace/finished work of the cross...When i look at the fruit of those who believe the grace message, there is freedom, intimacy with God, miracles, signs wonders, power, changed lives and salvations etc...we see how Paul lived, the apostle of grace.
For very good teaching on Grace download and listen to the 7 preaches from Rob Rufus (on grace-in-flood home page). This will bring a good understanding towards the power of grace/the finished work of the cross.
Wayne
Wayne,
I think that you you've said is exactly the point: you say 'grace is powerful and has a powerful outworking in the life of the Christian...grace changes you positively and effectively, its outworking is deep and significant'. Grace is not powerful, it is Jesus and the Cross which is powerful, grace doesn't change you - but Jesus Christ and what happened on the cross changes you. I'm deeply thankful for God's grace (which is just the means by which God gives us that which we neither deserve nor can we earn). But we can't be in love with grace, grace is just a means. Otherwise we fall in love with a doctrine more than Jesus Christ, and that is idolatry. If that definition of grace is true (the means by which God gives us that which we neither deserve nor can we earn)- we have to love that which God gives (Jesus Christ) more than the doctrine itself. I, like Anonymous, would love to see people preaching Jesus Christ and the 'Full Counsel of God' rather than just a narrow, and one dimensional theological stance.
I am a bit confused here. Anonymous wrote on the 28th July at 10:25 "Firstly, grace is found in a person, Jesus."
How can you have grace without Jesus?
Grace = The Gospel/Good News. This Gospel is the power unto salvation. Rom 1v16
Further more, lets look at:
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
What was Pauls gospel? Take a look at Acts 20v24 again.
Grace is freedom from law, condemnation and most importantly its the face of Jesus Christ!!
Law came through Moses but Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ:)
2. Its our position of entrance into the Kingdom eph 2:8,9 and we must remember to preach the Entirity of Gods Word as this brings maturity and the manifold Wisdom of God:)
Things i feel we need to clarify with ppl is that grace is not an excuse for laziness but the very Power and virtue of God exerted in Christ and that we still need to lay a hold of Him and fight the good fight and be agressive in the Spirit!!
Grace is freedoom to be and breathe the Life of God!!!
daza
Hi Guys,
The essence of ME's view is that confession is helpful for restoring our damaged relationship with God. Even though God declares us not guilty, we sometimes feel guilty and 'fessing up is a first step back to fellowship.
I have the utmost respect for ME and his view is logical but I see no Biblical support. He provides 2 scriptures: Ps 51, written by a man born under law and therefore under condemnation, and 1 Jn 1:9, where confession is linked with forgiveness, not subsidiary issues of fellowship.
When Christians sin we need to repent. Rms 2:4 (KJV) says we come to the place of repentance not through an awareness of our badness, but a revelation of His goodness. The emphasis is on God's grace, His forgiveness, His gift of righteousness, in short, the finished work of the cross. This leaves little room for guilt-ridden introspection.
I have said more about this on my blog here: http://escapetoreality.org/2010/02/18/completely-forgiven-why-confession-is-bad-for-you/
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